pants
Hi, I'd like to discuss with you the question, if a woman must wear skirts and dresses to be modest. I must admit, that I prefer pants by far! Whenever I wore a skirt, I was attempted to put on sheer hose and heeled shoes with them - and didn't feel really modest. Since I switched to wide pants instead, I wear flats and trouser socks with them every day. Can that be immodest? Yours, k.

Actualy, we are discussing just that on the intro post. Some of us believe that loose pants are ok and others believe that a woman should always wear a skirt. Personaly, I wear skirts in public and usualy at home, but find some chores are more easily and modestly done in pants (loose overalls are my favorite). As for hose and heels, I NEVER wear them...besides failing your moms "not dressing for sexual attraction" -*test*-('"), they are uncomfortable. I wear long wide skirts with sandals, boots, or tennis shoes. Instead of hose, I skip socks with sandals (I have heard some say that is immodest), wear tights or knee high cotton socks with boots, and white sport type socks with tennis shoes. I feel led to dress like a lady...to me that is dresses and skirts in public, but really I don't believe there are any hard fast rules. Honestly, I have seen many women in dresses appear more immodest and unladylike than the one next to her wearing a pair of loose slacks.

I'm feeling a bit daring, so I'll tackle this one. 8) I'm not sure why you think that sheer hose and high heels are imodest (although I don't wear them because of their impracticality. I'm a mother of four under 5; which is a lifestyle that doesn't lend itself kindly to high heels. And I'm so fine with that!) For myself, I came to the realization that it was/is the showing of our forms that are imodest ~ and the amount of skin we show as well. I never wore tight pants or sleeveless shirts or mid-drifts. They were always loose, baggy pants and long, roomy shirts. But when I started wearing dresses, I noticed that I wasn't as self-consience as I was when I wore pants. I think it was because I wasn't always pulling my shirt down to cover my "extra" curves! I suppose a thinner woman won't have that problem. But no matter how thin you are or how baggy your pants are, they will conform to your form far greater than a lose skirt or dress will. Your hips will be more defined, as well as your backside. Your legs will be more defined and our most private of places will be outlined in a way that is not modest. I can go on and on about why I think that dresses/skirts/jumpers are more modest then pants are. But my opinions are not really the point. The point is that we are trying to live our lives as Christian women should and living them as we feel led to. I truly believe that Christian women should live their lives with kindness, meeknes, submissivness to their husbands, modestly dressed so as not to profane the word of God... God calls us to be holy and pure. And we need to dress to the best of our ability to achieve that purity. If you truly desire to live your life the way God wants to, ~ in every aspect, not just in dress ~ then ask Him and He will show you the way. Until then ~ and certainly afterwards! ~ keep asking questions and those of us who have made the changes and walked down those roads, will try to help. Because I know the change is not easy and sometimes the things He asks of us are so difficult. Esp. when we are "alone" and the only one making the changes. But I'm learning more and more that I am not alone in these types of changes of lifestyle. And that does make it easier. In Him, Jennifer

Jennifer, Don't get me wrong, I am really not trying to be difficult. I really respect those of you who can wear skirts everyday, but I do find it an impossablity in my situation. I am writing back, not to argue or sass, but to discuss the areas we both argree and disagree on. As for modesty, we both believe that it is highly important. We both wish to be as feminine as possable, but we have diffrent ideas on how this is to be done. I will try to answer your post in some type of orderly manner, so here goes... I guess high heels and hoes have a bad conotation for me. When I see them I think of my sister getting ready to go clubbing or some other inaproperate activity. I personaly do not feel modest in them. In our society, they seem to have a "sexy girl" message to them...just look at the ads. As for my point about wearing pants at home (on our little farm). My husband has, as my children say, "outlawed" skirts in certain instances (anyone in which I will be physicaly elevated). He almost had a fit the day he came home and found me on the roof in a skirt. After telling me to get down he proceded to tell me exactly what I was wearing under the skirt and then stated that it could have been the UPS man seeing all that. I was a bit embarrased. Also, things like barbed wire (or even meshwire) are a bit abrasive to the bare skin. So I wear not only overalls, but long sleeves and leather gloves when fencing. At the dump I have to climb in and out of the back of the truck unloading my trash, so that is one trip away from home that I do not wear a skirt. Instead, I wear a pair of ankle length coulottes that keep me well covered as I get up and down. While coulottes are more modest than the overalls, they are not practicle for all activities as the wider legs make them more likely to trip me up or get tangled in somthing. Oddly enough, for warmth I prefer skirts. A denim skirt layered with tights and/or long handles is much warmer than anything else on a cold windy day. Blessings, Trina

Your post reminded me of something that happened to me a couple of weeks ago at our local library. I was wearing a nice ankle length full cut skirt. I was a windy day and just as I stepped out of my truck and closed the door the wind picked up my skirt and almost flipped it up over my head. Talk about embarrassing. I am so thankful I live in a small community because the only one there to see the whole thing happened to be from out of town. I must say, in this situation pants would have saved me, but hey I usaully wear dresses in public too. As to hose and heels, all I can say is that I don't wear them because they aren't comfortable. I know several ladies that do and they are very feminine and modest. I also know several "women" not ladies who where them just to be "sexy". I think alot of whether you are feminine and modest or not depends alot on the heart attitude and what you portray to others by the way you move your body, what you say and how you act.

Ladytrina ~ We actually posted at the same time. So my response was toward katischatz's post. I'm sorry if anything I said offended you. In those instances, I can see why/where pants would be more modest. I agree that being up on the roof, or above someones head, wouldn't bring glory to God! :shock: I don't, or at least havn't, had any of those issues. Although we do have friends who have a farm and milk abt. 65 cows and all the females wear dresses exclusivly. I'm not sure how they handle the ladder work. Perhaps they have their brothers do it ~ there are 10 children (9 living at home), so there are enough brothers to go around. And I suppose I should explain what I mean by "high heels". I deem anything that is more than 1" high heels. Now I agree that stilletos are worn for the "attention grabbing" appeal. There is no way anyone could claim otherwise. But sheer hose worn under a long skirt? We went to a very conservative Mennonite church and ALL the women wore black, sheer hose. Trust me, they didn't even hint at sexy. Yes, of course we all have our ideas at what is most modest for us as individuals. And regardless what anyone else says, if what we are wearing pleases the Lord, we wil know it ~ the opposite is true as well. In Him, Jennifer

Jennifer, No offence here...I just wanted to make sure that you took none when I explained my position. Believe me, I was not trying to lead k in the wrong direction. As for the hose, I can see that we are thinking very diffrent things. I am thinking sheer, shiney skin toned things that bring a lot of attention to the legs. Usualy, I would call what you discribed tights. I am really with you on the comfort issue...the best thing I've found to do with nylon hose or tights is use them to winter store onions! Blessings, Trina

Oh, Jswife. I had that happen to me too. Unfortunately, I was not alone as you were! Yikes!

Hi ladies, One very windy day I had the most embarassing experience. I was in a public parking lot with my husband and had to throw my arms down over the skirt grabbing the hem and squat down just to keep from being exposed. I was appalled. I am not sure what women of old did about this.. maybe that is one reason they wore them long and heavy, with underskirts. :-) Juliet~

women in pants.. my thoughts :-)
Pants are not a neutral subject in our country. They are a relatively new piece of clothing for women historically speaking (minus the Indian cultures who wore them under there dresses) and it was a series of events that led to this being acceptable All cultures before the last 120 years made their own clothing or hired it done. Each piece was made to fit them exactly and needed to last. The fabric usually was chosen for durability, station and usefulness. Styles changed slowly in most of the world. Small fashion changes happened over many years and mostly happened in the cities. The countryside was much the same for hundreds of years. Women wore a similar long flowing dress in most of the cultures of the world since recorded history. The introduction of pants for women here in this country came after a series of cultural changes that happened after the industrial revolution. There was a series of attacks on the traditional role of women. It began in full force during the Victorian era. One of the catalysts for this change was the invention of the automobile. The gentler and more graceful era of the horse and buggy days were coming to an end as women’s beautiful hats and clothes were being ruined by the high speeds of the topless automobile. Sports and leisure became more accepted as the industrial revolution created a new mass leisure class. Women wanted to take part in pursuits such as biking, motoring and tennis and began finding clothing and hair styles that would accommodate them more easily. It was not too long after this time in history that Hollywood used moving pictures as a source of cultural influence. They boldly placed leading stars in pants paving the way for the men and women of our country to accept this change. It seems no one was noticing that important distinctions between men and women were being eroded, that the honor and dignity of a woman’s roll as wife and mother were being replaced. She was now the equal partner in, sports and work and play and her clothing reflected that. She was in actuality becoming a play thing. Not a wife, mother or daughter with an important roll earning her honor and respect, but a sex object for men to demean. The feminist movement responded to this portrayal of women by rejecting the dignified roles God created and sought to make women over in the image of oppressive, self centered, independent men. The women of our day born from this movement are not dressing unisex as the feminist intended; rather they are dressing extremely immodest, dressing more like a prostitute using their bodies as a means of power. As Christian women, we must be very careful. This is the climate we live in. This is the purpose of the designers of our age. They are influencing the culture by creating fashions that are extremely revealing and immodest. They are designing clothing that makes women of all ages look like hookers. Many women are forced to dress more immodestly than they would like as they struggle to find modest clothing at all! As Christian women we must work hard to not wear the fashions of our day. What we wear is not neutral. The historians know that. The fashion designers know that. What we wear does make a difference in culture. Pants are not neutral. They are part of a change in history and they continue to be a force for change in the culture we live in. They are usually much more revealing and freeing. That is why they started wearing them in the first place. They wore them to free woman from the constraints of a skirt, so they could do what men do. That is why we wear them when we have to do the man tasks around our homes or farms. They still communicate this.. even when a very feminine women wears them loosely. They are still pants. Yes.. she is wearing them the best possible way. But they are still a piece of clothing that has a history and makes a statement. Women in pants still communicate a support in the moving away from a woman’s traditional rolls. Women in modest skirts, still says its okay to be a woman, to be feminine and be the weaker vessel. Men know this instinctively, that is why we have the door held for us when we are in a skirt. Historically in America.. these unsaid things are communicated by what we wear. That is what advertisers know. They keep trying to push women away from their femininity by depicting women looking tough and sexy in pants. Wearing modest skirts embraces another message and I think it is important as Christian women to communicate this to our culture. They have always been the clothing of women and are suited to our callings and our nature. Occasionally we need to done a pair of pants to do a task. But on the whole when possible I think it is best to wear modest skirts and dresses.

Hi Ladies, I wanted to explain that my above post is just a way to share some of my historical perspective. I love to study fashion history and think it has a lot of bearing on the pants issue. I do also understand the challenge of making such a change as pants to skirts. It took me a long time and has taken some adjusting in my life. It has been about 5 years now and I still have to work hard to make it happen. Finding clothes and putting it all together for each season is not easy, but in the end, I am happy with my life in skirts and dresses. Often if I wear some sweatpants for some reason and my friends or neighbors see me.. they gasp.. “your wearing pants!” I usually do not realize that others notice it more than we think.  I just find it comfortable and now it is just a part of me. Hope my above post is not too long. I really love this topic. :-) Juliet~

^^ A great big thumbsup to that post! No, it wasn't too long at all. :)